First off, I would like to thank frequent commenter Mike for suggesting this topic. Though I have set up a self-directed RESP for my boys, I had not researched scholarship plans in detail. The little I did read about them suggested that I should stay away. Nothing that I learned while researching this post made me change my mind. How do these plans work? In a Group RESP plan, contributions are pooled together and invested in fixed income instruments. For an overview of how a Group RESP plan works, you can refer to pages 25 to 32 of this prospectus.

You should keep in mind that there is no such thing as a free lunch. They also employ agents to sell their products. Guess whose pocket these expenses come out of? The enrolment fee may be refunded to you, in portion or in full, when your newborn enrols becomes a qualified student. You will also pay depository charges, administration fees, trustee fees, custodian fess and investment fees.

These fees alone excluding the enrolment fee add up to more than 0. When a contributor withdraws from a group plan, only the initial investment less enrolment fee is returned. The earnings on the investment stay within the plan and is shared by children who become eligible to receive payments. If the earnings boost from forfeited income were much larger than the total fees, you would benefit from a Group RESP. If money is tight a job loss or unexpected emergencyyou should be able to skip a contribution to the RESP.

Your flexibility is limited if you originally signed up for a regular contribution schedule. You should keep in mind that scholarship plans are invested in low-risk and low-return assets like T-bills, bonds and mortgages. It is extremely difficult to say how much the fees add up to and since it is not obvious, you have to assume that you will be left with more if you invest on your own.

In my opinion, you should carefully consider the alternatives and decide for yourself if they are better. I have a RESP set up for our kids with TD eFunds. There is no RESP administration fee and I am able to invest in one of the lowest cost mutual funds available.

It gives me flexibility I can decide to contribute or skip entirely. Remember, most people have other priorities like saving for a retirement and paying off their mortgage and control my kids are very young, so the portfolio is heavily tilted toward equities. If your kids have five years or so till university, you should be invested in bonds or GICs.

In contrast, you have to keep contributing to a scholarship fund or you lose your membership. Is there any drawback to self-directed RESPs?

Though it should take you an hour or so to set up and fifteen minutes every year to monitor, it is entirely your responsibility to do so. You should also be disciplined enough to take appropriate risks. It makes no sense to stop contributing to a scholarship plan because only your contributions less fees are returned to you. You lose the earnings on your contributions as well as the matching grants provided by the government. The longer you have been contributing to a plan, the more important it is that you continue to do so.

RBC has Mutual Fund mix that is geared to certain graduation periods for RESPs. Where by the mutual fund has different risk periods depending on maturity. The first child was invested in a moderate risk mutual fund. Each plan has there own fee structure.

Heritage at least has a track record, one I will tell my children to rely on for their children. By chance to you happen to sell for Heritage? Show me that mutual fund that has posted negative returns over an 18 year period. I keep trying to post my RESULTS with our Group plan vs. Regardless of various and differing fee structures, does the bottomline not tell it all?

I think these plans might be useful for people who have absolutely no financial discipline at all. I would be a bit more enthusiastic about group plans if I am able to understand how they work. After reading the prospectus, a couple of times, I have to say that they are very complicated. It is also not easy to ballpark how much total returns will be in the future: For some folks the best resp plan might be to pay off the mortgage before junior goes off to college which will free up enough money to pay for the schooling.

When else does th Federal Government give away money?! Do I have to put more money in to get it? I actually do have a CST plan for my daughter. Our first contribution was April My only advice for people shopping for an RESP. If approached by a sales rep for a group RESP provider especially CST. Run for the hills as fast as you can. You would be far better off stuffing bills in tin cans and distributing them in non-random patterns in your back yard underground.

I wonder if you work for a financial institution in competition with Group RESP providers? Anyway, I found your inability to comprehend basic mathematics and then set up a soap box so frustrating that I had to respond. CST has front-loaded fees. You probably saved nothing for the first two years of your contributions. Those funds do not incur costly MERs like many mutual funds would. With a Group RESP provider, your principal net fees is protected — this is not so with a bank self-directed RESP.

With a Group RESP provider, your money is invested in government-backed securities. Conservative investments are the way to go. Your post begs for more information.

It is of the utmost importance how much you have contributed and on what kind of schedule.

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Try this math on for size. Open an RESP at a financial institution, invest in an ETF bond fund and save the Group RESP fees. Who comes out ahead after 18 years? If you did come out as well as you say you have you should understand where the gain came from. A large portion of group RESP returns come from those poor investors that were unable to finish contributing to their plans. That can be people unfortunate enough to lose a job, get divorced, etc.

Is that how you want to make your money; off of unsuspecting Canadians who did not have the foresight to predict future problems 18 years in advance? The Group RESP industry is the scurge of the financial industry and should be regulated out of existance. Average Canadian would be better off for it. If you are stuck. Write to me at edward evpnet. I cannot understand why is the government doing nothing to stop this. There should be a class action suit.

There are much better programs out there. Hi My name is Nitu and i have been in the financial industry for over 10 yrs. Being a financial advisor with CIBCinvestors group and few other dealears. I have also had my license sponsered by pooled RESP dealers. Being on both sides and being able to offer my clients an option of self directed or pooled group RESP leaves me unbiased.

I think both products are good depending on the risk tolerance and so forth of the client. I belive many financial advisors and consultants do not understand the group RESPs and are too quick to Judge them. Here are the fact of positives and negatives of pooled RESPs. They are less flexiale than self directed ones as you would have to stick to choosen payment schedule. Fees are front end therefore you would not earn interest on part, not all of your principal for the first two years.

This is why some of you are seeing a lower current balance than you have contributed. Depending on the company you go with they range anywhere from 0. I would have to explain this in detail on paper but the math has been done. Good Mutual funds non bank also have fees similar to the pooled membership fees they are called frond end or back end. Pooled RESP fees MER;s are not only tnominal but the membership fees of the group plans are returned if the child goes to school, therfore only charged if the nominee does not attend any post secondary education.

If the nominee does not attend post secondary education then the returns would be similar to that of low risk bond funds. In my opinion its worth to try to get high returns without risking your principal in case the nominee does further their education, and have a lower return if the child does not attend post secondary insitution.

Also remember where ever your principal is invested that is where the grants will be invested. So if a mutual funds performance is negative the grants will also be negative. This was changed many years ago, now all group plan give interest as well.

The group plans were also very rigidlong ago.

Now if the members are not able to keep their commitment of what they started out with then the plan could be suspended for 3yrs and then has to be restarted, however if the client wants to cancel altogether and take out their money they will lose the membership fees as with the back end fees of the mutual fund for the first 6 yrs.

Lastley i would say the trick is to find the right company and representative who can explain the both options with full knowledge. As far the people who are seeing less than their principal amount in their group RESP statements, thats because the membership fees have been deducted up front as it would be in a front end mutual fund.

In time you will see a much bigger balance, just give it time to earn that. By the way i repersent Heritage Education Funds Inc which is the easiest to understand and the lowest fees group RESP.

By the way if you read a full prospectus of any mutual fund, it is also confusing as is any prospectus. They are that way because they have to give full disclosure. If any of you want to have the choice of offering your clients the mutual funds and the group resps and need more information regarding this or clarificationslet me know.

Our second child we did with Heritage. All this talk about fees, returns, etc. How do you argue that? Are you familiar with the CST plans, they really are difficult to comprehend with regards to fees etc.

I have three plans set up for my children are really hope this was the best decision, I just hate seeing those darn entitlement fees every time I read the statements!

Too late to change things now as my oldest is already 11, just not sure if I should change our investment strategies for the younger two….

Since you will lose most of the front-end loaded fees if you withdraw from a Group RESP, I think it makes sense to stay in the program assuming your child will attend a 4-year program when the time comes to collect. You are comparing pooled RESP plans with the worst mutual funds out there in terms of fees. Bonds are today yielding 4. My main point is that I can get at least the same return that a pooled RESP provides by investing in a self-directed RESP in low-cost funds. I can also tailor the risk based on the age of the child.

I have said the fees are nominal compared to that of mutual funds, not in general. I would say that is nominal compared to a good performing fund. Just as in a mutual fund, you can only look at the historical data and i think a 10 yr return is a good time frame to look at. At the end of the day we have to do what may be best for the client based on their risk tolerance and financial circumstances KYC. For some, pooled RESPs may make sense and for some they may not. All i am saying is that they are an alternative or another option if you will, and they are not a bad option if you fully understand them.

As you have said that a newborns savings should not ENTIRELY be invested in bonds, this could be an alternative for partiall savings for diversification or fully if the client is a low risk client. Wether it make sense to you or not a low risk client should not be invested in equities. It is incorrect to say that low-cost funds are under performers. Do you have any studies to back up your claim? I can show you any number of studies that show the importance of low MERs.

In any case, I am invested in index funds which will track the index less the MER, which is lower than 0. You are agreeing to contribute this amount for 18 years. So, the load is Yes, membership fees are refunded in nominal, not real terms, but only if the child enrolls in a 4 year program. If future bond yields are higher it is bad news for someone investing in bonds today. It means their principal is being inflated away faster than they are being compensated for it in terms of interest payments.

In any case, total bond returns have a high correlation with current yield. So, it is reasonable to assume that bonds will have total future returns in the 4. BTW, I am not suggesting that the entirely invested in equities, but a diversified portfolio of stocks and bonds. I can invest in bonds myself, why would I want to invest in bonds through pooled RESPs? The only attraction of a pooled RESP is the possibility that attrition will boost returns as long as you are not the one dropping out. I am not convinced that the boost from attrition will make up for all the negatives I have pointed out.

If you are pessimistic, returns will be in the 4. Is it any wonder I prefer the self-directed route? I have a family plan for the 4 kids, and have tossed it all into a Td waterhouse trading account.

I have it loaded up with income trusts. We are now in the process of trying to make a withdrawal, as the oldest is planning on college this year. I had to educate my accountant as to my understanding of the way the withdrawal is removed, and taxed. I was concerned that our contribution was going to be exposed to tax a second time upon withdrawal, but this is not the case.

I am planning on waiving the withdrawal part that is our contribution, so that the plan keeps returning an income for the other children. Hope this helps slick. You are welcome to disagree with my opinions or post your point of view.

There is no need to be disagreeable. I cancelled with them after 15 months. The CEFI personal was nothing but bad advice, especially the local Rep. Any RBC branch can handle your money better. If you like to share any negative information about CEFI, go to my forum. MY SON IS NOT YET READY FOR COLLEGE, BUT ONE OF HIS PLAN HAS MATURED, SEPTEMBER 1ST. I WILL BE MOVING TO RBC. CEFI REFUSED TO PAYOUT THE INTEREST EARNED WHILST IN THE GROUP RESP PLAN.

ANY THING THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THIS. There are good and bad in both, however is safe secure flexibilty is what you are looking for then in MY OPINION group plans are the best. There are 5 group plans out there… you have only talked about one, what about the other 4? I can tell you that with Heritage, they pay in the number of years your child goes to school. Who knows when you have a newborn what or where they will attend at the age of 18?

At least I know if my daughter goes to college or university she is covered. CDN Index — 0. I assume equities are making 7.

Heritage will be equal to bonds. I can see your point on how the bank is making HUGE AMOUNTS off the fees. I could keep going all night, but I think you see my point by now. In no way can heritage ever catch up. I stand by my original comments that Group RESPs are good for NO ONE except the group RESP companies. I am simply trying to save for our kids education in the best way possible. You can simply buy some GICs in a self-directed RESP that is as safe and secure and offers more flexibility.

I did take a look at Heritage prospectus and find it very similar to CST. I found nothing to change my opinion of group RESPs.

However, if you have already signed up for a group RESP, it is best to keep contributing because the alternative losing the membership fee is even worse.

Thanks for this post CC. He kept going on about the horrible hidden bank fees. This is all without putting any of my capital at risk. I know that there could be some higher rates of returns out there at TD. What if there is a big market correction in the near future. With my principle at risk, I may never be able to recover that.

Maybe you should be praising TD, but not necessarily at the expense of group plans. If Traciatim were to plunk this in his example, he may find that Heritage would catch up in the long run. He actually lost principle!! It sounds like there were a lot of high risk equities at a time when the portfolio should have been rebalanced to be more conservative because of the shortened time horizon in needing the money.

Who was responsible for managing the portfolio? Lets say for instance that your child is just born and within a day or two your RESP is set up. You decide that heritage is the way to go so you buy 10 units. On page 46 of the Heritage RESP it mentions that a per unit price for lump sum contributions is It bases this on the 6. Since their MER equivilant is around 0.

I read recently on wheredoesallmymoneygo. I will be using 5. So, if TD makes 3. If your MER was 2. All This proves that people that pay fees get far less return. Fees dramatically diminish returns. Interesting fact too… if you want guaranteed. Using these over 18 years would yeild vs the heritage You could also find GIC index linked products that guarantee principle and follow an index. Not sure of the fees here though.

I have my CA designation to back up my claims, plus 15 years experience setting management fees for Mutual Funds. Do you even know what an MER is?

I did note in the post that you should take responsibility for your investing if you set up a RESP on your own. If your child is going to university in a few years, you should not be risking the college fund in equities. But, if you child is 3 years old, you have a very good justification to take the extra risk in equities and the time frame to recover from set backs. For me the bottom line is simple: So, I choose to avoid it.

Your mileage may vary. All very good points people…. I know they should take responsibility for their investing… I know…. Then I hear about the guy across town that may do it cheaper but they get their parts from somewhere else. Most in this post have also commented on the fact that as the child ages, the portfolio should be shifted more to conservative bond type investments.

But now, the person at the bank who originally set up this RESP has long gone, as has their other 4 predecessors. They are not taking responsibility for their investing as they should. And exposed to market risks. Group plans may be the devil…. Folks put their money in and they can forget about it knowing that principle is safe and money will be there when their kids go to school.

Yes there are slimy salespeople renowned in the RESP company circles. Yes, there are penalties for pulling your money out early, or for taking time off. I agree with what MOST people have written in this post but people should not be made to feel that they have done their children a great injustice because they invested in a group plan. The greatest problem is that there is TOO MUCH information out there for people to digest.

So they choose to avoid it. They just look at the bottom line. If it is growing, they are happy. Group plans, banks, and planners prey on these people. One thing that can be said about group plans is that they are consistent. Is every bank RESP the same??? I would just like to acknowledge that all you people out there who locked into group plans……. You heard Traciatim point out that the numbers favour TD.

You are still doing OK. For all of you who stuck with me this far…. So I know that some of it is safe. Would anyone be willing to comment that all of these products have a place here as the market of those purchasing them is as varied as the products being sold??

The IG one with the 2. The GIC based one at a credit union or banks, sure. She made the points that the company wants to sell and I signed up not knowing any better. Looking back it was a huge mistake. I want Canada to learn not to make the same one. In order for there to be change there needs to be movement in money to simple cheap products that work.

In order for that to happen you have to scare people see advertising industry for last 50 years in to thinking they are not doing the right thing. People will migrate to better products simply because the worst ones get weeded out for them. As people migrate, the providers will wake up and make better products. If you started when your child was a newborn, at around 7 — 8 years old, you can pay up your plan as if it were a 5 year annual plan.

You could then put future payments in a your TD RESP account. Ask your CST agent about that. Unfortunately competition and the potential for profits is what drives greed and, therefore, Corporate Canada. You must hate those as they are a real contradiction in what you feel is wrong in this investment world….

What is wrong with that picture??? Best to stick with a low-cost index fund. I would be more enthusiastic about group RESPs if despite the fees there is high attrition. The rest comes from earnings of the RESP investments. Could you please expand on the attrition concept. What do you gather from that?

Attrition is when people drop out from the group RESP. They get their contributions less enrollment fee back but lose all the earnings so far.

The lost earnings is distributed among current members. It is not guaranteed and the provider is under no obligation to make these payments. There is plenty of unknowns on how much you can actually collect.

I have a CST plan for my 3 year old and 1 year old. What would be my best option now? Should I minimize payments on it and start another RESP account? Does that make sense? How much do you pay, how is that calculated? If you are already contributing the maximum, the best course might be to continue with the program. Do you mean the enrollment fee? I had no problem discontinuing contributing to the RESP that I was investing in when I was approached by the CST sales rep, and I never imagined what was going to happen with the CST plan.

I know this because I already had the idea of shifting her savings around before I ever met with the sales rep. I had no intention of paying into that plan until she was After many truly frustrating emails with a few representatives of CST and realizing that all my choices were grim, I decided to pull out. How could I trust anything that the sales rep had told me when he clearly left out vital information? You will lose money no matter what you do other than stick with what you signed up for.

I, like Edward in post 10 above, cannot understand why this type of thing is allowed to continue. My husband and I just started contributing to RESPs through our local insurance agent for our 1 year old and 10 year old. My mom has been contributing to CEFI for my son and just started one up for my daughter.

I had to go sign paperwork involved with this and had to endure an hour long sales pitch about the evils of hidden MER fees. I am all about research and after doing some reading I have come to the conclusion there is no way I am switching over. There are too many qualifications to meet in order to receive the scholarships, etc.

I know the risks involved with how I am doing this now but I feel safer somehow. At least if I came into financial hardship I can stop my payments until I recover without losing all my profits! I do my best to make sure that all my prospective clients know the risks involved with Group Plans — if they cancel or default then they only get their principal back, minus enrollment fees and forfeit their interest earned.

They can also commit to only paying in to it for 2, 5 or 10 years — not always the whole 17 years. I have signed clients up for just lump-sums, with no ongoing commitments, even though it made me a much smaller commission. I can state with absolute certainty that many parents still choose CST and other Group Plans, knowing full well the potential risks, and knowing full well not to expect huge returns. Very few people have the time, knowledge or inclination to research their investments.

How much of your MER have you gotten back? Is everybody a bull on the stock market? The money comes from what is left over after we deduct our fees and cover our expenses.

It adds significantly to the investment return. The 10 year average net return is 6. And yes, I did do the math on the enrollment fees. But mutual fund salesmen sell the higher MER funds because they make a greater commission off them.

You CAN do well with CST. Why is it that some people have such a hard time accepting that not everybody is like them? When mudslinging is going on, we all get dirty, and the client gets fearful — and does nothing. Is that what we want? It sucks, and everyone should avoid it. You claim the MER is 0. How can you compare that?

Are they doing that poorly that they have to take peoples enrollment fees too? For the record, I am not a financial advisor. We are already at 1. I deal with these people all the time.

So, hard as this may be for you to swallow, you are in the minority. Can someone help me? I have a CST plan for my son who is four years old. It makes very little sense to leave the plan as you will lose your enrollment fees, which in the long run will be very difficult to make up over the next 14 years or so. If you were thinking of increasing your RESP contributions I would strongly recommend a separate plan from another provider.

Can you provide a breakdown? It sounds about right, considering that initial contributions go toward paying the enrollment fee. As Traciatim and I posted elsewhere read through the comments in the RESP categoryit may not make sense to pull the plug because the biggest bit the enrollment fee is front loaded. As Mike pointed out…. Check with your CST rep.

What do you guys get as commission?? That is a big commission for a few hours work. Salespeople in these group plans have their own best interests at heart in my opinion.

I had a Heritage Rep over justa few days ago — WHAT A SCAM. Hardly c ould understand that fact that they suck up about in enrollment fees within the first few installments. I will never go with a group RESP — what a scam. Heritage RESP is a scam. A friend and client of mine dropped by the other day asking me to explaine his Heritage Education Fund plan to him.

I called the toll free number and spoke to a mechanical person who said I needed one of their forms to ask for a withdrawl not true and also spoke to a rude supervisor who refused to explaine the details to me.

I was agast at the cost of this plan and the complete consumer rip off it is. The insurance on a group RESP is completely optional and the rep does not make any commission on it. The Canada Learning Bond which you……. That family may not have been eligible for it.

Mike, thanks for your input. I was getting tired of having people who have no training or clue about groups RESPs trying to explain them to others. I also work for a group RESP provider — USC. Do we have fees? Of course we do; I have to earn a living and pay my way just you all do. For a few hours work?

Do you how many hours a week I work, preparing for appointments, making appointments, answering clients queries, training meetings, travelling? I travel to their home at a time when it best suits them, and they are entitled to that service until their children have finished their studies and they no longer need me. They include university educated, some with MB As. They rely on their bank manager or whoever opened their account to choose for them. Most of them are under the impression that the banks or other financial advisors do this for free, because fees are never mentioned.

If the questions is asked, the answer is No. Try visiting the web site sponsored by Ontario Securities Commission: They have a nifty Mutual Fund Fee Calculator. Pick any type of fund you like — equity, balanced, bonds and input the MER your fund charges. Oh — did I mention? As I said, however, not all group RESP foundations return excess funds and rely on attrition only. But that only goes to show the flexibility of the plans.

Therefore, a CLB may not be deposited into a mutual fund. This is another unfortunate example of the blind maxrecordsforexporttoexcel 2013 the blind. Also, if you were to call our head office and attempt to elicit information about one of our subscribers, you would be turned away as well.

Same as if you called his bank and asked questions about his bank account. Furthermore, the toll-free numbers are staffed by Customer Service, not registered sales reps. They are employed to assist current clients with their accounts and are not licensed to sell RESPs which means explaining in detail how they work over the phone to non-clients.

And yes — a form IS required to withdraw money from an RESP. Most people save what they have left, after they go on vacation, eat out at the restaurant, go to the movies, which means mostly they save nothing or very little. And, yes conversion to a single payment option is usually available approx. Makes a whole lot more sense than waiting until the last minute hkex stock options list few years before they graduate high school, assuming who holds earnest money georgia bought forex correlation map house when they were born and it took you years to pay down your mortgage.

That is, of course, unless you decided to buy a bigger, more expensive home along the way and get into another mortgage quite often the case in the real estate boom of the last few years.

Once your house is paid off and your kids in college, you can maximize your RSP. My step-father retired at age 55 and is now His retirement home costs more than his current income, so every largest stock broking house in india he withdraws from whatever his has left.

Had he known, maybe he would have retired at a later age. Maybe do a bit of both. Compare more than one before deciding. Ask questions — write down the answers. By the way — TD does have pretty good returns. All the group RESPs providers make available all the grants out there, of course.

This is where a lot of largest stock broking house in india sets in. They are going to have another child. They want to stop their RESP payments for the first child for a while.

They can suspend but then would have to make up the missed payments. These factors were unforseen at the time the initial RESP was drawn up.

It is too early for conversion. They can reduce the amount of ninja forex trading platform payments for the first child but they are not reimbursed any of the fees. The scenario above is a real one. The next payment will be used to try to have another child instead.

Other than this one little pet peave about group plans, I LOVED THE WAY YOU EXPLAINED YOUR POSITION. It is obvious from their posts. They had an ad in the package that was dropped off to us at the hospital IE, Ambulance chasers. I would have been far better off if I spent an hour a month researching RESP options for a year and signed australian binary options von hamish raw with something useful and not predatory.

I was naive and signed in haste, my mistake. If I can keep others from making my mistake I will be happy. The same amount of time would be spent on a 25 unit plan too. A mutual fund would call that expense of 0.

These charges are clearly stated in the USC prospectus in Page Show me how a Group RESP is better than a self-directed RESP constructed with low-cost index funds.

And what do they say about not asking a barber if you need a haircut? There is no how to buy sri lanka stocks that everyone should be fairly compensated for their work. At least, much better than the folks who are selling these products and claiming that you pay no fees other than enrollment and depository charges!

I think your position is that the returns on these how to buy sri lanka stocks are comparable to high-MER funds sold by financial institutions but you are not happy with the lack of flexibility of group RESPs. Our position is that investors who take a bit of responsibility for their portfolio can do much better on their own.

My daughter is going into her 4th year. Maybe I couldve done better in someting else. I looked into the group plans and I was unimpressed with the prevarication of the Sales Reps. I tried and tried to get a real rate of return out of them and they continually avoided the subject. I did not even inquire into the other fees because I was so turned off by their shiftiness and unwillingness to answer my simple question.

I then decided to get a self directed RESP but then found download ebook belajar forex Etrade does not apply for all the grants I am eligible for.

The other I will open with Etrade and put the rest of my annual contribution in. They will only apply for the Basic CESG. Honestly after all the research and time and energy I have put into this I have only one thing to say.

I binary search tree c delete node USC group plan for my son. We are looking at the same thing for our Granddaughter. I have no idea about these resps. I am signed with Heritage for first child. It is doing well. My nabor is loosing money with the TD index fund CC talked about this year even with the goverment grants.

Mine is doing good. I am going with heritage for how to successfully trade binary options child as well. Sucker or not, I signed up wall street journal 1929 stock market crash kids for the CST yr plan.

Maybe an obvious statement, but it is all about timing! Take the recent TSX market performance. As my stomach has twisted in knots after reading this thread and wondering if I made a bad decision on buying CST, I guess I am looking for some self-reassurance that I made the right choice. So please tolerate my ramblings. And even if you do, once again it is all about timing. Yeah I eventually recouped that over the following years and even made a little more, but think of how much further ahead I would have been if I had started my investing in instead of So once again it aetna rn work from home jobs all about timing.

If you are convinced that is the low point of the TSE and that it will hit or by the time your kid hits university, then go for us treasury granted exemption for forex swaps. The only people who make money on the stock market are brokers through their fees.

Thanks for the input everyone. The group plan sounds like the way to go for me. I want to be able to go to bed at night not worrying about my RESP. Inflation is a huge risk, especially since education costs have recently trended well above inflation. For young children with 10 to 15 years from university, equities provide a chance at a higher return.

That expected higher jim rogers stock market has a risk — your investments could fluctuate in value. It is the classic dilemma between sleeping well and eating well. The trick is finding a balance not simply investing everything in low-return assets. Almo is still right though.

You said something about equities. I eat very well just ask my scale and I plan on sleeping very well with a group plan. My friends RESP fluctuated alright. When can he make that up? That is not a trade off I am willing to make. I stand corrected Can Cap…. That is one semesters worth of tuition!!! I have no idea what your friend invested in.

I am invested in a diversified portfolio of low-cost funds. I did mention in the lost that going the DIY route means taking responsibility — that includes setting an asset allocation and sticking to it, not speculating in the stock market. Truman, I have to agree with CC on this note. By the time my kids are a year away from school I will have extremely little exposure to stocks.

See what I mean…. From what I understand, these words are not all that common in the group plans…. My friend trusted someone at a bank to probably do all the stuff you guys were just talking about. Take my case for instance, when I was 22 my daughter was born. In the pack that the hospital gave us was a card for a rep from CST. I signed up and proceeded to give them a shade over 7 grand over the years. Currently we stopped paying our monthly amounts in to work from home jobs lifehacker RESPs because my spouse went to school and is attempting to go in to business for herself.

Stopping my sons RESP payments I logged in to TD and hit cancel on my payment plan. It powers of authorised dealers in foreign exchange done, no questions, fees, or problems. These two options are very different from each other promo codes for binary options in both cases doing something will be far better than doing nothing.

If you really want guaranteed returns you can go to a bank and forex manipulation investigation an RESP using guaranteed income certificates GICs only. I would guess that you would do far better and be even more secure that with a group plan.

This is especially the case if you need to make a change in the future, like in my case. Probably much further ahead than one would be if in a group plan. I was just a little older than you when I started my family.

The group Does ocado make money was FANTASTIC for me. Just goes to show you…. Forex trading education free online trading card g43 CC, I am very familiar with the various forms of risk, no matter how they are disguised.

I have been gambling on risk for the better part of 18 years in the stock market and my conclusion is that it is all about timing. Certainly that is no stroke of genius on my part, but sometimes you just have to experience the ups and downs to fully appreciate the different forms that risk can come in.

You have summed it up nicely by saying that it is the balance between eating well and sleeping well. If you consider the absolute best case and worst case of each investment method, you can use that as ftp put syntax guidance for choosing an investment vehicle and determine your risk tolerance.

No risk, no reward, right? So lets call inflation equal whether you go with stock market or GICs. But if you are invested in the stock market, not only are you susceptible to the risks of inflation, but you also have to contend with employment conditions, fluctuating world economies, wars, natural disasters and terrorists.

It is a chicken-and-egg debate about whether these cause inflation or inflation causes some of them. And it used to be that in times of economic trouble, the best thing a country can do is go to war; unless of course, it was a war how to earn money from android application got you into economic trouble eg.

I do sleep better knowing my CST money is immune from most of these risks, except of course inflation, to which everyone is subjected. With fixed investments like GICs at the bank, you can at least ignore the dropping of the stock market, for a while. But at best, it is a 5-yr GIC and then at renewal time, you are subject to the effects of all the aforementioned risks.

Therefore, your renewal rate may be much higher or much lower depending on market and global conditions. To be fair, I did check various sites and the best 5-yr GIC I see right now is around 4. Not bad at all in this economic climate. True enough, unless you are selling your stock at a loss. Anyone figured out a way to make the CST fee tax deductible? And just to be controversial, I am not saying that CST or any other group RESP is better or worse than bank GICs or other guaranteed bonds or Tbills.

Originally I started this self-debate trying to convince myself that I did the right thing with CST. But I do think if you are in a fixed-term investment, then you should stick with it.

Nope, never happened, it went negative, but then again it was all market timing. And I wonder if those who pulled out of CST would have been better off to stick with the plan? The rest of us are just pawns in the big game of stock market chess. We invested in a group plan with USC two years ago. All government grant money, interest, and enrollment fees paid could not be accessed unless my child attends year two or higher.

I feel it should be available even if my child takes a one year course. Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Also…my overall experience with USC has been very negative. We were told many lies during the sales pitch and we are now feeling stuck contributing money to an organization thatwe feel, behaves unethically. I think that groups sales reps prey on families stil adjusting to a new baby and all the emotions that go along with stock market electronic ticker. But, I do believe that, in this age of disappearing defined benefits, all of us have to learn the basics of investing, whether we like it or not.

Fixed income investments are less volatile but after netting out inflation returns will be low. Investors following this recipe have a good shot at earning whatever returns the market Gods give us.

The group RESP guys are does earnest money get cashed right away help as well. Who do you think pays for the advertising and sales people? You are correct in pointing out that if volatility scares an investor, they could get the same or better returns by investing in GICs.

Not to mention the flexibility — if 99 binary options strategy 10 minute change, just skip a contribution or two and catch up later. I should point out that whenever I talk about stocks, it is the market as a whole. I have a son for whom I have contributed for 15 years in the classic USC plan.

This was a huge mistake! Our son is in his 3rd year of postsecondary education, but has switch programs. We have only received the return of our contributions, but no investment returns or grant. This plan only works if he is in a four year program and does not switch to another program.

We still have to pay tuition but get no benifit from our savings. The people at USC are very uncooperative. I have been approched by a few sales rep from the group plans companies and they sound a load of bs. They are trying attack the banks. They just sound very unprofessional. I honestly feel like they sound like con artist. Later research showed me that it would be 2. I asked them about the new Quebec Government grants….

Rainmaker, yes you are correct that many places charge big fees for RESPs. I have yet to come across a group plan that would be a good choice. Mutual funds DO NOT GUARANTEE your principal investments. In they looked pretty good, but in they showing huge losses.

Universitas Trust Funds offers: The breakdown of fees foras shown in the Management Report dated Dec. Trust Eterna Inc Trustee Fee: So the actual TOTAL fees are 1.

So, yes I do stand by the 1. Over the past 10 years these fees have steadily decreased: As a Non-Profit Organization, we know that the more efficient we operate, the higher the scholarship returns. Fees are on a cost recovery basis only and our results speak for themselves. I agree with you that there are representatives that may not be giving all the data. Earn money fast pet society is true of banks, investment companies, etc.

Consumers have to ask questions, do their research and get up to speed with how all of the options work. When representatives misrepresent their product then consumers should report this to the company and goldman sachs fx trader salary the respective Provincial Securities Commission. As for the Membership Fees not attracting interest you are correct.

They do, however qualify for the CESG. I have done extensive research on GICs, Mutual Funds and other group plans. I believe that all of these play a role in financial planning. Just as not all GICs and Mutual Funds are created equal, neither are all Group Providers.

Again, consumers must do their homework. If a representative is evasive or talks lingo that they can not understand, they need to be cautious. Consumers should never feel pressured to invest, but should feel confident and knowledgable in the choice they are making. Universitas offers an excellent investment option for education with no risk to the principal, low operating expenses and a history of solid returns.

You can access the Management Report at http: I just wanted to thank you all guys for this excellent post. I was just about enrolling into Heritage group RESP and I read this post along with similar one in milliondollarjournet.

I fully understand the risks of the market. I just bought a house and had the down payment in GIC RRSPs for the first home plan and nearly lost everything moving it into mutual funds. I also signed my daughter now four up with Canadian Scholarship Trust Plan last year. CSTP does seem to be quite transparent with their income statements.

My personal retirement is another story. But I cannot fail my daughter with her education. Does anyone have any experience or understanding on that?

That same person also miscalculated so many income, expense and retirement need numbers that while she was giving best forex online traders to follow wife the pitch I was browsing on the laptop barely paying attention and I still caught several mistakes.

He may have to feed his family for a week on what he made from me. I have no problem with that and people need to really give their heads a shake 2 min binary options strategy they complain commissions and fees.

No one works for free. There are many worse mistakes you could have made. Write down all of the possible scenarios…. You would want to ask about 4 things: You choosing to be paid out beginners guide to stocks trading 4 years and your how the youtubers make money quitting during her first year and not returning.

Your daughter becoming a wealthy entrepreneur and deciding not to pursue post secondary at all. I think the rest of this string might be interested in the reps gta san andreas cheats money as well. Thanks for the suggestions. I certainly will be speaking with my rep shortly, but things are too chaotic this month to sit down and properly prepare.

I have a bit of background in journalism, so will definitely be going to the source. Both are unknown at this point. I did a lot of research to decide what to do about my sons RESP. A lot on this forum thanks for the info. I did talk to and meet reps from the group plans.

It seemed to me that they rely a lot on people not getting their money back to increase the return which really did not seem right to me. I was also unhappy with their inability to answer my questions about interest, fees etc in a direct manner. I did not feel capable of directly investing myself because every stock I buy seems to go through the floor.

I turn around and throught authorized payments put it right into the RESP. I decided to gold bullion traders in india Investors Group to hold my RESP I chose an equity mutual fund last spring which took a real tumble when the stock market tanked.

I am confident that as time goes on I will see dome healthy returns. I am so grateful to live in a country that sends me free money that I can invest so they can give me more free excel options trading spreadsheet so that my son can be educated.

He is not even 2 yet and has more money saved than me!!! In any case with this great way of saving for our kids education the only mistake we can make is not to participate. Remember to save for your rainy day too Rachelle. Do not be alarmed. There are a few things I did not mention as well. I am self employed so my income is lower than it would be if I was employed.

Also my house is modest but entirely paid off so I have no rent to pay. I am only in my second year of my business which grows every year so I look forward to making more money every year. It just so happens that the stock picks I have made have dropped through the floor and his buy bre-x stock certificate done rather well considering what has happened to stocks in general.

It grows really fast. I also get two other subsidies for his investment that most people do not get. The way I figured it the government of Canada sends me this money to take care of him. It is his money not mine to spend on the need of the moment. Another thing I want to add is that if ever I had to take the money out I could except for the part the government contributed with no fees or penalties. I even get the interest made on the government contributions.

Most people are unwilling to do what we are doing. Last year I made after my business expenses. Yet I am saving for my son and myself as well.

My husband and I make many sacrifices so that we can be better off. We drive an old car. That alone saves over per year. We have Internet and download our shows instead. When we go to the ROM we go on Wednesday between 4: We make very carefull choices. It is amazing what you can do when you decide to save. I forgot to mention that the baby bonus money I get also does not count towards my income.

My husband takes care of the baby while I work. I do not pay taxes I get money back. I do not pay for daycare. I keep my expenses very low compared to most people I know. In our society there is a lot of emphasis on how much you make, what car you drive and how big your house is rather than how much money you have left over. For example my modest house it is a two bedroom with a two bedroom basement apartment.

It was in horrible shape when I gatt trading system it.

I paid about When I added up the payments and interest I paid in five years. Now Because I worked so hard I have the freedom to start my own business taking a pay cut, raising my own child, and still saving a little bit. I zynga stock options fired made lots of dough in my life but I ended up with nothing because I did not pay attention to how much I was spending.

So far I am more successful at saving and much more relaxed and happy. Has anybody studied RBC Target 20XX Education Fund? Seems it makes more sense as the Fund would make necessary adjustment when its target date 20XX approches. JS — I looked at a similar fund, and the consensus from the smart people here is that overall, your better off just mimicing their performance and moving the funds yourself in a self directed account. You smart people will probably say I could have done better elsewhere….

John, congratulations on being successful with Heritage. One thing that might be helpful is to actually document the process — do you pay the tuition first, submit a claim, etc?

I am a lawyer by profession dealing in forex pk area of corporate commercial and real estate. After taking a pounding in the stock market, which has recently recovered after 10 years of steady losses, and ridiculously low GIC rates, my wife and I went with Heritage.

In addition, we life insured the payments notwithstanding that this is very expensive if you look at the cost per thousand dollar of insurance. When I went, I maxed out my student loans and worked for the rest. We own a fair bit of real estate and that has averaged quite well over the last decade. Even in a recession I can still plant a potatoe on it or raise some goats on our property. Excellent debate from both Group and Self-direct fans. I have a group plan with CST for my two kids.

I know enrollment fee is not earning any income in CST. I am not good at math, but as good parent as all of you. Thanks for the info you have provided. The total return on contributions is very similar to what an investor would have achieved on their own by simply investing in bonds.

Of course, DIY bond investors would have more because they are earning interest on the enrollment fees as well. If you transfer out of CST now, the hurdle to overcome lost enrollment forex rate of bangladesh plus interest income sounds pretty high, especially for RESP accounts that will become quite conservative over time.

Earn rewards cash complaints Whoyou, I answered over at million dollar journey, but here is my opinion pasted here just in case you miss it over there. It ends up being about 7. That would involve a huge amount of risk that late in the game, and what would happen if a year or two before she goes to school we have another in the stock market?

My plan converted to an individual plan in CST just before I collapsed it. You may want to give their customer service line a call and ask how it works.

Actually, CST real average return is about 3. Buying bond with high MER, I am not optimistic that CST can provide return they projected to parents. Anyway, I think I have to stick with CST. If you do a conversion, you can pay up your existing units in full. That plan is then done and paid up. CST reps get a report of people who are eligible to convert. Usually between seven and eight years old assuming they have been contributing since birth. Should I pay the total amount for the remaining contribution, or just stop paying and it can be converted?

Could you give me an example how it works? If you are currently contributing annually for exampleyou are making payments each year for 18 years assuming you started at newborn.

A five year annual plan autochartist instaforex a plan that you make annual payments to for 5 years only to purchase a set number of units. By the time your child is between 7 and 8, on average, you will have enough in your annual plan to convert it to the equivalent number of units as if you intended to do the 5 year annual plan all along.

The plan is then paid up with the set number of units purchased and no further payments are required. The reason it takes between 7 and 8 years is obviously software trading online forex india mumbai the 5 year deal would cost a lot more annually to accumulate the same number of units that you are based on 18 annual payments.

It take about 8 years of your annual plan to equal enough principal and interest to equal the equivalent number of units in a 5 year annual plan. There may be a small interest adjustment that you will have to make to make up any difference but it is can be negligible if the the timing is right.

Make sure when you do this you have research all aspects of what you are signing your money up for for 19 years. An accredited institution is the same for ANY RESP. The Government classifies institutions as to whether they are eligible for RESP payouts.

Does it make sense to switch forex delhi a self directed RESP with a bank like TD at this point? Will I still be owing to the group plan provider if I transfer out of the group plan? The Canadian Scholarship Trust CSTUSC, and Universitas have all started and discontinued multiple plans over the years, instead of updating their current one.

Each of these plans has different rules that govern them. They may both be right, so unless does earnest money get cashed right away are talking about the same company and plan, there will be confusion. On that note, talking about what children are presently experiencing as they go to school is not necessarily indicative of the plans that are currently being marketed.

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Anybody can go on this site, and post whatever they want. It can become a shouting match, but it is hard for the average person to discern the truth. I do work for a scholarship plan company, and I do know a fair bit about all of them. It you want, you can email me questions to canadianfinancialwizard-at-gmail-dot-com although I would prefer to answer them here, as some people may have the exact same question.

I had a client who had invested with us for 3 years. This is absolutely untrue. Either way, he was completely wrong, the people made investment decisions and from most accounts, the people here would say us treasury granted exemption for forex swaps it was a bad decision based on this wrong information, and also lost money.

Sadly, they are completely happy with this MFSR, and might die delta hedge binary option knowing how wrong and bad the advice was. As well, they will probably spread the same misinformation to others.

The MFSR might not care, because he made his commission. When it comes to any Scholarship Plan, you should read the prospectus. That will tell you more than the people on this board probably will. They are all available at http: One thing I will mention is global forex institute facebook the responsibility is on you to understand the prospectus and ask the questions you need to.

I will help with providing a couple. If the child chooses a scholarship option, will they receive all of the interest earned on their money, the entire grant the government contributed for their child, and all of the interest on said grants?

Please word it this way, as this cannot be dodged. You will find that with CST, USC, and Universitas the answer is no. Also, it is up to you to read and understand all of the fees. Talking about Universitas, I could not find in their perspective where it states that the membership fees are guaranteed to be returned. The most basic question a prospective subscriber should be looking at is the completion rates. This is something that the Securities Commission has recently required the plans to disclose, and is the best gauge of how flexible a plan truly is.

What these and they are in each companies prospectus show are the percentage of students who are eligible to receive scholarships, and actually do. Good for sales, bad for children later on. I consider this the silver bullet, when it comes to comparing all panduan pemula forex the plans out there.

There is one plan that has an incredibly high completion rate — I leave it up to you to do the work and find it. Keep in mind you will lose enrollment fees, grants, and all interest. If you do cancel, you will not have any obligation to pay the remaining membership fees. There is one plan out there that I would run screaming from, but I obviously will not post that here. I could go on for days, but I have a life. Good luck to all, whatever you do, and do it with knowledge, and be comfortable with your decision.

To my previous post, point number one. It should have said: If the child chooses a scholarship option, and only goes for two or three years of schooling, will they receive all of the interest earned on their money, the entire grant the government contributed for their child, and all of the interest on said grants?

To which questions are you referring to? If it is the question of whether or not a child will receive all of their money, in the Scholarship Option, under the Reflex and Universitas plans, if they go for two or three years of schooling, I am under the assumption that the answer is no. I know that Quebec schooling is different that the rest of Canada, but this leads me to believe three years: The Foundation awards the first Scholarship when the Qualified Beneficiary has obtained 12 credits at university.

The Foundation awards the second Scholarship when the Qualified Beneficiary has obtained 36 credits at university. The Foundation awards the third Scholarship when the Qualified Beneficiary has obtained 60 credits at university. The Foundation awards the first Scholarship when the Qualified Beneficiary has completed his first year at university. The Foundation awards the second Scholarship when the Qualified Beneficiary has completed his second year at university.

The Foundation awards the third Scholarship when the Qualified Beneficiary. Why would you be on this board posting that a child will get all of their money if they only go for two years, when your prospectus says otherwise? The Management fee of 1.

Another question I would have of a Universitas rep: Can the investments that Universitas makes with my money lose value? Is my principle at risk? Are they exposed to equities, and if so, how? Forgive my not being up to date with everything about Universitas, as I am not in Quebec. As well, Universitas has started and stopped a few plans in the past, have three that they are currently marketing, so again, please forgive my confusion.

As I have stated previously, this is one of the reasons there is such confusion about Group plans, as some companies have multiple plans. It is understandable that the public cannot make heads or tails of how the plan works. Just for yuks, I decided to take a look at the Universitas prospectus. I have to say, even I am a little confused as to why there are two different group plans.

This alone makes me, as an investor, a little nervous. While I was reading, trying to discern some thinks, I came across a few interesting tidbits. However, only the income accumulated since the Maturity Date, if any, will be transferred, as well as the income accrued on the CESG, the CLB and the QESI, if any. However, income accumulated in the original plan is not transferred, except for the Income from the CESG, CLB and QESI, where applicable.

WOW, this is almost as sneaky as the insurance product that pretends to be a group plan. Great for sales, bad for customers. Gotta read the small print. The folks who are comparing the stuff they do at the bank to this would be quite accurate. I am just guessing, but I would imagine that having two different plans allows the sales reps not the moral ones to promote the best of both, and let the clients assume that by being in one, they get the best of both.

I understand group plans quite well, and the Universitas prospectus I find a bit confusing. Each plan has different schools that they allow children to go to? And parents have to decide that when their child is a newborn? You probably play up the Quebec Head Office thing a lot, while, imho, your plan is really not flexible. As a rep, I wish I was in Quebec, because it would be easy to compete against plans like this. Other questions that come up: That is almost two years old.

Are they hiding something? Is the life insurance optional? I would like to say that I try not to sling mud when I talk about Scholarship plans, but what I have read so far does not have me all that impressed. I see some talking points that are probably great for sales, but really nothing to make me want to jump into this product.

I might be wrong on any one of these points. If I am, please reply and post the page number of the Universitas prospectus where I can find the correct information. This will improve my understanding of your product, as well as anyone here who reads this. I know that Quebec schooling is different than the rest of Canada, but this leads me to believe FOUR years:.

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I like what you are saying. I agree with the majority of it as well. I did a lot of research before choosing a group plan for my kids as well. Can you tell me one thing though? To my knowledge, bank RESP withdrawal rules are the same as that set by the Government. These rules are available on the HRDC website:.

For instance, he states Group RESPs have fees yes, they do but also says that they can make up these fees and more through active management not true according to their own reporting. I do agree that transparency in Group RESPs is improving but these plans are still inflexible and have a high cost structure especially if a subscriber is one of the drop outs.

Do you mean fails some academic courses and have to retake it? The Government rules simply have to do with enrolment, not how successful a student is in his education. For instance, do I have to show proof of enrollment? With group plans… when your child reaches age 18, you have to make a decision as to how you want to withdraw your funds. All right away vs.

You go for 2 and flunk out of your third year of economics. You start another first year program in philosophy because you flunked out of year 3 of economics. It is my understanding that you cannot get the 4th installment of your group plan EAP. If Mark and Geoff can stop bickering long enough just kidding maybe one of them knows the answer. After week 13, I can withdraw as much as I want. So what happens if child enrolls, and flunks out?

They are required to follow the RESP rules set out by the government. The government has some rules about when and how the RESP money can be accessed. In order to draw it all out, a minimum 13 week, qualifying program must be taken. The fellow on the phone was very clear when it comes to what is required of a student. The Government makes the law, and they require the promoters to ensure that it is followed.

The law states that the student is required to spend no less than 10 hours per week…. There are two ways that a promoter can ensure that the student is actually attending as required. They can ask for attendance records This would be difficult for correspondence courses?

Either one would satisfy the government in that the promoter proved that the child had attended as required. Each promoter had to come up with a system they could put into place to ensure that they were complying with the law.

I am not convinced that the banks have done this as yet, but I feel they will have to in the future. This is a very important factor to research. The RESP rules have only been on the books like this sinceand banks have only been doing Education Savings Plans since that time. How this will be interpreted in the future is anyones guess, but the law is clear. I would hope that the families could just transfer them. Scholarship plans are a one product company.

To ensure that they are in compliance with the laws, and that the students are attending as required, they have all put into place a system to protect themselves, and their subscribers. There is a Scholarship plan that allows a minimum of 3 weeks per year after the first year of 13 weeks are taken to pull out a scholarship payment each year.

They promote the idea that a child can just enroll, and not attend. They even suggest the child can do this for the whole 4 years not go to school at allall while pulling the money out of the tax shelter.

The law requires that we ensure that your child is attending. This is how we do it. If anyone, whether it be a Scholarship plan sales person, or a bank representaitve, or just a person you talk to tells you a trick to circumvent the law, keep in mind that it is probaly not an idea that is supported by the government, and I would imagine in 18 years that the government will find a way to prevent it.

First of all, I will comment again that you cannot lump all group plans together, as they have different options, and therefore different flexibility. Might not require four years.

Some offer much more flexibility. Again, with others, that is not the case. I wanted to answer your question earlier, but again I wanted to clarify some things with CRA. In the future, I suspect the banks will have to have a system and being as they are large, they want to minimize the paperwork, I hope that computers can help with it to prevent students from abusing the tax shelter.

Because the RESP program as it stands right now only started inI predict in the future this will become a bigger issue than it is right now. Mark, for someone not living in Quebec, you seem to pretend you know a lot about the Universitas Scholarship Plan.

Anyone can get on this site and mouth off, as if they are experts on all RESP plans. Most people would read your comments and believe every word you say, since it sound believable, but completely false.

The success of a plan can be seen from the current value of a basic unit. Compare the value of CST, USC Hertiage basic unit to that of Universitas, and you will see that we certainly do pay out higher scholarships. As well, your information regarding the payout is completely false, you omitted some very important information found in the propectus which can be found on Sedar as well as the web-site of each company mentionned.

For someone who pretends not to sling mud, you certainly have done a good job. If I had time to waste, like your obviously do, I would take the time. Should I have a day to waste, I might just give your readers the correct information.

Did you even read the whole post? I said that I was unfamiliar with the Universitas plan. I asked a lot of questions, that no one has answered. I also posted all of the information directly form the Universitas prospectus.

This is what really floors me. A universitas rep comes on here and brags that they are the only company that quarantees the return of membership fees. That is what I posted, and to be fair, I quoted directly from the prospectus. I did a lot of asking and assuming, so feel free to make any corrections. Scholarship payouts are nice, and if that was the only thing that separates all of the plans, CET would win, not Universitas.

The fact is, if the scholarships are higher because a lower percentage of children are able to qualify for them, that is a negative, not a positive.

That is why I read the prospectuses. I do apologize that I was harsh on Universitas, but to be quite blunt, after the reading of their prospectus that I did, I have to say that I have a very low opinion of their plan. Feel free, using facts, not trying to use emotions to change my mind. I do, however, think parents should know in advance what they are getting into. What I deplore most about these blogs is the fact that people actually base their decision whether or not to look at a specific program on what they have read on this blog.

In fact, that very thing happened this week to one of our reps. A customer read your comment about Universitas, and cancelled his appointment. His decision certainly was not based on the facts. For that specific reason, Mark, I am more than happy to respond to your question about Universitas.

First of all, we have 3 plans that we offer people, Universitas, ReFlex and an Individual Plan. The reason we have 3 plans, is very simple, we offer people what they want and need. They later incorporated the Universitas Plan which has served us well, and has an excellent track record. This plan has helped thousands of young people get different types of degrees.

I personally know, a doctor, accountant, criminologist, and an engineer that were very thankful their parents had the discipline and foresight to save for their education. The Universitas plan is more restrictive but has a higher return, versus the ReFlex plan which is much more Flexiblity with slightly less return. When meeting with parents, we do a detailed client profile and based on the parents needs, the parents and not the reps make the decision.

Both plans are shown and explained in detail to the parents and based on that information, they make their decision. Contrary to what you cut and pasted from our prospectus, the Universitas Plan also pays for Technical Cegep as well as University along with the another option of using the government grants before the scholarships to pay for either vocational training or general Cegep.

The Reflex plan covers vocational training, ACS, DCS, technical DCS or University. With Reflex, students receive their first scholarship upon registration. So you asked, why different plan, why not! Give parents the option to choose a program that meets their needs. They have allowed Universitas to invest in the stock market, Blue Chips and due to this fact; we do have a much higher return than the Ontario based companies, who have been restricted to invest in guaranteed TB and Bonds.

However, due to the fact that we invest in stocks we are not allowed any discretionary power. The Ontario Securities Commission allows all the Ontario based companies to have a discretionary powerthat allows these foundation to decide how much, if any enrolment fees with be refunded, as well as how much if any profits and attrition will be added to the true value of the scholarships.

Universitas, receives an annual external Actuary Certificate that states the following:. We did an audit of the three following elements: Tables of deposits in the prospectus see pages The tables must take into account the age of the beneficiary at the time of subscription, the savings period and the method of deposit selected by the subscriber.

Distribution of income and expenditures for The distribution of the income and expenditures of the Foundation by cohort and by plan must be just and fair. Calculation of scholarships whose payment is made between September 1, and August 31, The level of the scholarships paid to beneficiaries must be calculated to represent, on the date of their payment, an accurate share and a just and proper division of the net income accumulated in the Scholarship Fund.

It is our opinion that the methodologies used, as well as the assumptions made by Universitas Foundation of Canada regarding these three elements are proper and fair, and well documented. I am very pleased to inform you that because we invest in the Stock Market, we ended with 9. Even thought we show a lose forour 10 year average net return after expenses is 6.

As far as the administrative fees are concerned, you will see on Page that for the 6th consecutive year we have decreased these fees.

Any organization whether it be Universitas or CET, CST, USC, Heritage, we have to pay the trustee, depository, our administrators, the auditor, the actuary firm, employees etc.

No company can be run without expenses. Effective the Insurance now is optional. However, in 1. As well, Mark, you are more than welcome to move to Quebec and do CET business here. For the more than 6 years, I have been associated with Universitas, I have only come across one person with a CET plan, and have never run into any reps. You know the irony of two group RESP salesmen arguing over which plan sucks less should not be lost on anyone reading.

Skip both these options — self-directed couch potato investing is the only way to go imho. We are not arguing over whos plan sucks less, I was simply answering questions that were asked…. Do I not have the right to do so? Cory — of course you have the right. I never meant to imply otherwise. First of all, going with an RESP specialist is much better than going with ANY of the banks.

If you walk into a bank and ask about an RESP, they get so confused because they arent specialized in them, nor do they know much about them.

I would rather go with someone who specializes in them, because I can be certain they know what they are talking about. Also, banks charge MERs, which are roughly 2.

I did the math and MER charges definitely outweigh the enrollment charges you will get with the RESP specialists CST, USC, and Heritage. So the three RESP specialists I found while researching online as I just mentioned were: Heritage, CST, and USC.

Each of these 3 companies prospectuses are found on their respective websites and can be downloaded for you to look at. One thing I found out was that USC and CST are owned by not-for-profit organizations. So any excess revenue that USC and CST make they are legally not allowed to keep it because they are owned by not-for-profit organizations. In the prospectus it says that the Foundation not-for-profit organization will give their excess revenues each year to the students who are attending post-secondary education that same year.

I looked at the numbers in their financial statements and the amount of money the foundation gives back actually covers the cost of enrollment fees and then some more. If you want to get really picky and compare USC and CST, take a look at their rate of return over the last five years. CST has an average rate of return of 4. If you want to have a heart attack everytime your mutual fund goes up and down like a yo-yo every month, then go with the banks.

But if you want a secure investment thats safe and will still make decent interest, go with the government bonds. Just like the line from the famous Turtle and the Rabbit story….

Slow and steady wins the race! My first guess is that you are a rep for USC. I want to clarify a few things you said that were incorrect. Firstly, the claim that CST and USC are owned by the non profit foundations.

That any revenue generated by the for profit sales arms gets into the hands of the children, is at best, questionable. You are doing a bit of assuming, which is what these companies want you to do. And you are assuming that the money that the non profit foundation donates is this money. USC and Heritage have very similar 10 year averages, and their scholarship payouts are almost identical even though Heritage offers more flexible options, so a higher percentage of children can benefit from the extra money.

If USC had additional money from the for-profit sales arm, it should translate into much higher scholarship payouts. As far as USC being better than CST, I will concur on the return numbers. CST has been horrible for the last few years. I would say that is a good thing to consider when making a decision.

You should, though, mention that CST allows more flexible options for a child going for a short duration program, than does USC. Just wanted to make sure there was some fairness in the discussion. If any plan was chosen based on incorrect information, or just a couple of variables, then the family might not be making the best decision. Non profit does not mean not for profit. Then I began to do the math and figure out where the money was going.

Basically the guy who ran the place was paying himself a 6 figure salary for doing nothing. He had a very nice house near Mount Pleasant and two cottages and several new cars. It was a bit of an eye opener for me. There are legitimate non profits just like there are legitimate charities and they do wonderful work but some are highly questionable. As far as bank reps vs group plan reps they are both seriously lacking in education in this area.

Bank reps just seem to lack information while the group reps I dealt with were quite frankly evasive. I asked a simple question to these group reps. What is your rate of return? In the end I never got a straight answer to my question. What is YOUR rate of return. I did not deal with only one rep or one plan. I felt like all three reps I dealt with with very evasive. Sorry to hear that you had bad experiences with reps being evasive.

As far as non profit, you are right. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. Unlike the outfit you worked for, though, the group plans are strictly regulated as to how fees are taken. They do nothing for free.

They lend this money out at 4. They make twice as much on your money than you do. They might also go and invest your money, and keep all profit over the 1. I wish you luck if you are trying to find something safe, but better than a GIC. If you really feel like the people you were talking to were evasive or untrained, I urge you to call their respective companies an let them know.

They will appreciate the information, as they have a hard time of knowing what is happening in the house while the rep is there. We open RESP with USC on 21 Nov After 60 jan20 days they sent official agreements note with package. We were not agreed some of condition mention on agreements then then we cancelled our RESP within 7 days of receiving our official agreement 28 Jan Now they not sent fully refund.

They cut my entire enrollment fee and other changes. What should I do for get my all hard money? Anybody can help me regarding this matter USC RESP plan. I would call the company, explain your situation, and be firm about demanding all of your money back.

Explain to them that it was not your fault that the package was delayed that long. Tell them that you will file a complaint with the provincial securities commission if they do not help you out. If they do not help, follow through on your statement, and go to the securities commission.

I think that you will find that the squeaky wheel get the grease, and that you will be happy with the results. I was referencing OP wrongly when he stated government bonds my point is that if you want to hold these securities you can because TD has this kind of account.

IG was the only company that applied for all the grants. Their own documentation is clear as mud, filled with emotionally charged pictures and total market speak. Honestly I hope you sure to get your money back.

So yes they are taking money and paying out 1. Give 60 days to cancel for full refund, and wait until day 61 to send out welcome kit. I just really think these group plans are terrible products, sold under false pretenses and with little value.

But I do find it informative that very very few comments on this blog from existing group RESP plan members have anything positive to say; most of the positive comments come from salespeople I think. IG is not the only place that applies for all the grants. Then you go on to say that their returns are lousy. For the record, of all the mutual fund sales people out there, I personally like IG the best.

I have run into some really slimy sales reps, from a lot of compaines, but to date I have no complaints against IG. I realize that the bank does take on risk with their investments and loans, but I was using an overly simplified illustration.

This allows them to make far more than what I showed in the illustration. As far as people complaining, with any product or industry, that will exist.

I would guess that there are overchildren that started their first year of schooling with a group plan in How many complaints do you hear? Obviously, there will be a few. I am starting to see children go to school with this, and must say that the ones I know are thrilled. Like anything, if you piss off one customer, they will tell — if you pleasethey might collectively tell one.

The Medical Racket

Just the way it works. The bank will automatically roll this over for you. I have heard of this a lot, so watch out if going with a GIC for an RESP. The Group RESP contribution schedules are also overly restrictive. If they change their mind or their circumstances change, they lose quite a bit of their capital.

My understanding is that RESPs are a loss leader for banks. They are not in RESPs for the money. They are in it to offer a complete range for products to clients. My contention is that a significant percentage of Group RESP clients lose a significant chunk of capital when they had to stop contributing for whatever reason or do not get full benefits. I am actually a freshly graduated university student that benefitted from the USC Group plan. My mom signed me up with a plan when I was I am 22 yrs old now, and just completed a 4-year commerce degree.

I was just looking into the different RESP providers because i find it interesting to see the different types and was curious how the money I received was generated. And yes, I suppose my beliefs could be a bit biased since I had a USC plan, but the facts I stated were all true to the best of my knowledge.

BUT yes, I suppose an important fact I left out was: At the end of the day it looks like it comes down to risk tolerance. Some older plans do not allow that, which does get some people a tad upset. Those plans are not being marketed anymore. Some even allow the plan to be transferred to a sibling, another child, or to the parents themselves.

This is more flexible than the banks. Again, as far as I know, all the current plans being marketed have many contribution schedules. This allows people to choose what is best for them. I have people that do all sorts of plans, even multiple for one child. It is possible to lose money, if no further contributions are made, but the percentages that I have seen are incredibly low. We do everything we can to help people keep the plan alive, with as much money in it as possible.

They like people to believe that they have the best of everything. I encourage people to check out a mortgage broker, when thinking about a mortgage. They have fees for minimal plans to insure this. I trust that you know this, but your post seemed to indicate that they are doing this for little or no money, just to get people in the door. As far as hearing so many complaints, I only hear them on this board.

I personally make sure that everyone I sit down with has full knowledge to make an informed decision. If someone does invest without understanding what it is that they are doing, they should take some responsibility for their actions, as opposed to blaming someone else for their decisions.

There are a lot of options for people who have circumstances that change. I have had people that have to stop contributing, I have changed the start dates of many plans, and I have changed many plans to make it work for the circumstances of the family involved.

These plans are not set up to be punitive, but to help as many children as possible, have as much money as possible. Again, each plan is different, and parents need to do their due dillegence when choosing. I will point out one thing, though. CST and USC have that restriction.

Mark, you and I have spoken on different blogs on this very topic. I think the main point CC is trying to make above is that there are MANY forms of risks. Finally, I cancellation my RESP plan and I will get my all money. Thanks for all who have to nice advice. Sorry it took so long. On that note, this will be brief. You are correct, and I appologize. I have been on the other board, million dollar journey, if my memory serves me.

This is why, I guess in my mind, I lumped them both together. Again, with the volume of business that combined all group plans have, a handful of people who are disatisfied does not surprize me.

IMO, the right group plan is a great, handsfree, and safe option. I think a handful of us can respectfully agree to disagree, can we not?

I am looking to do a bit of both: All I did for now is carefully digested the USC prospect and read some forums and articles. I see this discussion started a wile ago, just wonder, is it still worth to open a TD e-fund RESP?

How did your investment performed over this time? How does it look now?